Canada takes in deserters

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Bugfatty

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#1
Did anyone see this on O'rielly Factor? Two American deserters are seeking asylum in Canada and like O'rielly said, Canada can only give them asylum if they can prove that they will be executed or persecuted and obviously none of that is going to happen, so they might be sent back. Which they should. But if they don't t will be a shitty thing for Canada to do.
 
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#2
Deserters should be sent back over here. It's not fair to those soldiers who actually sacrificed their regular lives to go over there. Trust me, I was deployed and I didn't want to go, but I didn't run and hide from the deployment
 

droogsteve

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#3
Canada. :rolleyes:

Anyone ever hear of the Charles Ng case? Ng was a serial killer. He and his partner Leonard Lake killed twelve men, women and infants in 1984/85 in California. Lake committed suicide after ratting out Ng, and Ng fled to Canada where he was picked up for shoplifting and assault and sentenced to four and a half years. The US tried to extradite him numerous times, but Canada refused because US prosecuters were seeking the death penalty. They wouldn't budge and Ng's sentence was almost up. So the US prosecuters called Canada's bluff. They told Canada that they wouldn't drop the death penalty no matter what. That left Canada two choices: Extradite Ng to face the death penalty or release a 12 time serial killer onto the streets of Canada. Suddenly their moral outrage against the death penalty seemed to disappear and Ng was extradited to the US, where he was eventually sentenced to die for his crimes.
 
T

Tiken

#4
Let them stay, we already have hundreds if not thousands of american Draft dodgers here from the vietnam era.
 

Bugfatty

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#5
Tiken said:
Let them stay, we already have hundreds if not thousands of american Draft dodgers here from the vietnam era.
You have to start somewhere and besides Canada has no legal right to house them considering all the extradition treaties the U.S. and Canada has.

The only way Canada can keep them and not break an extradition treaty is if the people in question face execution or persecution.
 
T

Tiken

#6
I dont believe they can face either charges in Canada as they have not committed any charges against or in Canada. And they have asked for Asylum, if the government accepts then all the US can do is appeal, appeal, and appeal.
 

Bugfatty

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#7
I dont believe they can face either charges in Canada as they have not committed any charges against or in Canada.
Which is why they should be sent back.

And they have asked for Asylum,
Assylum from what? Torture, execution, persecution? If Canada can't prove that either of these things will happen if they are sent back then they legally cannot keep them
 
F

fubar

#8
personally I don't care whether they come back, if they want to live in Canada, then let them. I don't think it's unfair to the soldiers who kept their commitment. The deserters shamed themselves by not following through with their duties, and I don't think that affects the people who were brave enough to go over there and fight.
 
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#10
Bugfatty said:
It is unfair because two people had to go to Iraq to fill their place.
oh yea, I didn't think about that, it was obviously a pretty shitty thing to do, especially considering they signed up to be in the forces. What would the punishment be anyway?
 

Bugfatty

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#11
oh yea, I didn't think about that, it was obviously a pretty shitty thing to do, especially considering they signed up to be in the forces. What would the punishment be anyway?
5 years military prison. Which is no picknick.

We cant execute them because its not a declared war. :(
 
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#12
Bugfatty said:
It is unfair because two people had to go to Iraq to fill their place.
i'll be piss off if i have to go in their place. we should bring them back. Leavenworth is no joke.
:)
 
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#13
Militaraly speaking they should be jailed for desertion, and I believe desertion runs along the lines of 50 - Life in leavenworth during peace time and the firing squad during war time. And I can agree on this, however.

Personally speaking, if they are running from only the war itself in protest and not deserting the military then I agree with them and would take them in.
 
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#14
Tiken said:
Personally speaking, if they are running from only the war itself in protest and not deserting the military then I agree with them and would take them in.
The argument against that particular statement is that if they were so against the war itself then they can apply for conscientious objector status. I don't know all the regulations governing that, but I do know that there is a way to serve the military without fighting. That is at least an option these people should have tried before just running away. I don't care why these people didn't want to go. That's not really my business. The problem is that they did it the wrong way and they deserve to be punished. I am in a unit of 120 people right now and at least half of us are against the war (excluding myself) but like it or not, we all went over there. It wasn't a picnic, let me tell you, but it was a lot easier than running away and trying to re-establish my life somewhere else, not to mention being afraid of getting caught for the rest of my life. Not being able to go home again for fear that someone who knew me would turn me in. These people really shot themselves in the foot when they tried to run away. Regardless of who believes in the war or not, rules are still rules and they were broken. End of story. There is no grey area here, and there should be no discussion. Canada should send those citizens back over here so we can prosecute them for breaking military law.
 
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#15
Tiken said:
Militaraly speaking they should be jailed for desertion, and I believe desertion runs along the lines of 50 - Life in leavenworth during peace time and the firing squad during war time. And I can agree on this, however.

Personally speaking, if they are running from only the war itself in protest and not deserting the military then I agree with them and would take them in.
how running away in protest is not deserting? Once you AWOL for a period of time, you're deserter. the military dont care if you hold a peace sign and protest, or hiding in another country. you can take them in, but when they cross the border to U.S. they better pray God they dont get caught. if they do, they be process back into the military and get the full justice. I know a fews from my last unit.
:)
 

Big D

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#16
Tiken said:
Let them stay, we already have hundreds if not thousands of american Draft dodgers here from the vietnam era.
I think dodging a draft, and deserting a military that you signed up for are two very different things. If I believed in what our military did enough to sign up for, I'd go if it was my time.

But I'm pretty against war, and would never sign up for the military unless our counrty was being actively invaded, or there truly was another "Hitler" on the lose. If they had tried to draft me to go to Iraq, I am so opposed to the war, that I would take jail or Canada over joining that debacle anyday...