Is Rumsfeld's head gonna roll?

Viceroy

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#1
Last week it was only the actions of a few US soldiers which were being called into question. Now Rumsfeld is facing a Armed Services Committee in the Senate tomorrow. Apparently, the Pentagon knew of the abuses back in January and Rumsfeld hadn't even read the report by the start of this month.

Thoughts anyone?
 

shade

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Mar 23, 2003
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#5
There is no reason for rumsfeld to lose his job over this at this point. The thought of it is simply absurd. Maybe if he actively obstructs the investigation of it, it could be a thought, yet highly unlikely.
 

Viceroy

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#6
Bergs said:
The idea that you even know enough about Bush to laugh at that is hysterical. Go criticize your own government.
I do. Just not here.

In any case, Bush is easier to criticise because he does so much more to piss off the world.
 

Viceroy

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#7
shade said:
There is no reason for rumsfeld to lose his job over this at this point. The thought of it is simply absurd. Maybe if he actively obstructs the investigation of it, it could be a thought, yet highly unlikely.
Someone's got to carry the can for keeping the report quiet.
 

shade

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#8
Why? What angers you more? The fact that the acts DID occur or the fact that the acts were not reported?

The acts were discovered, and the military stopped them internally, before the media found out. If you look at this objectively, what they did was best from a practical stand point.

1: Discovered the torture.
2: Stopped the torture.
3: Prevented (delayed) the muslim world from finding out about it and fueling anti-american sentiment.
4: They only fell short by not actually punishing the soldiers severely.

You would have prefered this?
1: Discover the torture.
2: Report it to the press.
3: Have a much larger uprising in Iraq killing more troops (including from your nation) and possibly delaying transfer of sovreignty.
4: Court Marshal a couple people.

Given the choice, in their situation, I would have done the same thing and gone with sequence one instead of two.

As a concerned American and news junky though, I would like to have known about this sooner and seen action taken sooner with more severe punishments.

When judging this, you need to do so from different perspectives.
 
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Dozzi

#9
And Viceroy I see why you'd have a problem with this. Coming from one of two countries that ever abide by the Geneva confrence, you should see this is a firestarter. The Geneva confrence was made but never backed with force, and torture has never been addressed until it was America who committed it. Iraq has and still tortures it's P.O.W.'s, and when respond with not even equal force, with lesser force, our Armies and Countries are ridiculed for it.

Isn't that a bit of a double-standard?
 

Viceroy

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#11
Dozzi said:
And Viceroy I see why you'd have a problem with this. Coming from one of two countries that ever abide by the Geneva confrence, you should see this is a firestarter. The Geneva confrence was made but never backed with force, and torture has never been addressed until it was America who committed it. Iraq has and still tortures it's P.O.W.'s, and when respond with not even equal force, with lesser force, our Armies and Countries are ridiculed for it.

Isn't that a bit of a double-standard?
No it isn't because American soldiers should consider themselves above terrorists and murderers.
 

droogsteve

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#12
Dozzi said:
And Viceroy I see why you'd have a problem with this. Coming from one of two countries that ever abide by the Geneva confrence, you should see this is a firestarter. The Geneva confrence was made but never backed with force, and torture has never been addressed until it was America who committed it. Iraq has and still tortures it's P.O.W.'s, and when respond with not even equal force, with lesser force, our Armies and Countries are ridiculed for it.
How could the Geneva convention be backed by force? Force by who? :confused:


Isn't that a bit of a double-standard?
We're supposed to be the good guys. The guardians of democracy. We're supposed to have a higher standard. Do you really want us to sink to the level of savages?
 
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#13
Why? What angers you more? The fact that the acts DID occur or the fact that the acts were not reported?
Both. But that congress ,and supposedly Bush himself, had to hear about the abuse going on over in Iraq (4+ months after the fact, mind you) from CNN is unforgiveable.

It would seem to me that somebody was trying to keep this a big hush hush secret, at least until after November....
 

Sketcher

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#14
Fossil said:
It would seem to me that somebody was trying to keep this a big hush hush secret, at least until after November....
How would this hurt Bush's relection? Bush had nothing to do with what these soldiers were doing. And Rumsfeld kept it from Bush. How would this hurt Bush?
 
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#15
Because it is another reminder that Iraq is a complete and utter disaster.

Bush, being the commander in chief, is ultimately responsible for what goes on over there, eh?

And it's pretty sad if you really believe Bush didn't know about the torture. Just how out of the loop is Georgie boy?
 

droogsteve

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#16
Fossil said:
And it's pretty sad if you really believe Bush didn't know about the torture. Just how out of the loop is Georgie boy?
I'd say pretty goddamn far. I get the feeling that GW finds out about "his" decisions and policies on FoxNews like everyone else.
 
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DeeDee

#18
The only intellegent thing for Rumsfield to do is resign. How in the world can anyone think that there is no reason for him to be gone?
 

Bergs

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#19
For once I actually agreed with something that Chucky, NY's other Senator said, we cant pass judgement and demand a resignation until Rumsfeld is questioned by Congress tommorrow. Tommorrow we will find out WTF is going on and believe me, mami knows, I am fucking furious over what happened so nobody better say im going to defend Rumsfeld no matter what.
 
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DeeDee

#20
Berg,I have heard that the republicans are acutally not defending him, they are waiting to see what he will say tommorow. I am at least happy at the fact that they are not defending him just because of politics, that they want to hear why and are not just automatically saying what he did was ok. Personally, i can't fathom what he could possibly say to justify this. I guess I will just have to wait until tommorow and see what the man has to say. Regardless, I think we can all agree that he made a gross error in judgement at the very least.