Solution to Middle East problem (at least for the U.S.)

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DaIce72

#1
We give them what they want...we leave! I am not saying pull out of Iraq, I think we should finish what we have already started, but after this is over, we simply never go there again. No matter what the U.S. does there, we are perceived as bad guys. I say we pull all interests out and leave them alone. What reason would they have to attack us then? We should still give financial aide and maybe impose sanctions or something, but sending young men and women to die and spending billions of dollars that could otherwise go to education or helping out the people that live in this country is just insane. I mean, the people don't even LIKE us. In a recent poll, almost half of the Iraqis stated that they would like to see us leave sooner rather than later. Saudi Arabia doesn't like us very much. The only friend we have in the region is Jordan (at least the main one, maybe Turkey sometimes), but now even they are coming under attack. WE NEED TO GET OUT!

Now I know the main argument against this has been "What about our dependency on foreign oil?" Well, I think that while we mop up in Iraq, special funds should be set aside for the development of alternative power. By the time we finish what we need to do there, we can atleast have some idea of where we are going with the power issue. I don't think people would mind cutting back on some of the things they love as long as American men and women don't have to die just for some gas. I am sick and tired when we do all of this and give so much, just to have the world criticize us and fly planes into our buildings.

Anyways, just some thoughts of mine...
 
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Stanky105

Anti-Spoon & Anti-Monkey
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#2
Unfortunatly, the middle east is the only place in the world where their main oil supply hasn't yet reached it's peak in production. We need ties to the countries to get oil.

Alternative power is nice, but needs a lot of work yet. We will still rely on oil/coal/gas etc for some time. Wind/solar/hydro just will not give us enough. Nuclear is the only main form of alternative power currently in use that can actually pump out some large scale voltage.

And yes, people CAN live with less energy, less gas, etc, but people are also stupid and won't do that.
 
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Sepoku

#3
nice ideals... but i think that's been tried before in history... we had interests in china in the 1920s, but we pulled out with the great depression and another country (japan) jumped in to fill our place. and besides, the arab countries' main grievance with us is that we support israel. what sort of hypocrates would we look like if we simply abandoned our allies like that? if what you proposed were at all possible, it would have been done decades ago, but its not...
 
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DaIce72

#4
Sepoku said:
nice ideals... but i think that's been tried before in history... we had interests in china in the 1920s, but we pulled out with the great depression and another country (japan) jumped in to fill our place. and besides, the arab countries' main grievance with us is that we support israel. what sort of hypocrates would we look like if we simply abandoned our allies like that? if what you proposed were at all possible, it would have been done decades ago, but its not...
Yeah but I think that we look like hypocrates already. At least to the Arab world we do. My main point is, if these people hate us, would GIVE THEIR LIVES to kill a couple of thousand of us, why don't we stop trying to help? That takes the ammunition away from them. Here's what I say: I don't give a shit about Israel. What do we owe them? They seem to be just as crazy as some of the Arab nations. The problem with that part of the world is that everyone is so closed minded. I mean, they have been fighting for so many years, but for what? Countless numbers of people have died, but for what? A couple miles of LAND?

If none of them are willing to listen (this includes Israel) then I say we stop trying to help. We have gone out of our way (LITERALLY) to try and help these people, and they HATE us. For our own good, we need to stop.
 
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Sepoku

#5
DaIce72 said:
Here's what I say: I don't give a shit about Israel. What do we owe them? They seem to be just as crazy as some of the Arab nations. The problem with that part of the world is that everyone is so closed minded.
kinda calling the kettle black there a bit, aren't you pot?

i'm not talking about the arabs when i say we'll look like hypocrates, i'm talking about our allies, present and future. who would want to associate themself with a country that would sell them out and run as soon as the going got tough?

you seem to suggest that we become an issolationist country. its been tried, it worked as long as we had a weak economy and were a secondary power. now, we are the leading power in the world economically, militarily, and moraly. we have a duty to do what is right. i'm not saying that invading iraq was right by any means, but we're there now, and countless people would die from our abandoning them.
 
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DaIce72

#6
DaIce72 said:
I am not saying pull out of Iraq, I think we should finish what we have already started, but after this is over, we simply never go there again.
I never said leave Iraq. That would be horrible and would be all our fault. They would probally be run by another brutal dictator or break into cival war. I just think that after the Iraq outcome, we should break off ties in the Middle East.

I don't want us to be an Isolationist nation either. All we would do by servering ties with them is show the world that if our help is not appreciated, then you wont get it. I am all for helping out other nations, but when you have our soldiers being shot at by little kids, I think it is time to reconsider our policy.
 
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Sepoku

#7
DaIce72 said:
At least if we lost Israel as an ally, they wouldn't come over here and fly planes into our shit.
that way of thinking won't work at all. that is exactly what the terrorists' goals were in commiting those acts. if we pull out, they'll see that those tactics are successful, and who's to say that they'll stop? france doesn't support israel or us, and yet they still are targeted by those criminals.
 
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DaIce72

#8
Sepoku said:
who would want to associate themself with a country that would sell them out and run as soon as the going got tough?
Well I think that we would still have many allies, and that we would not be blamed for our abbandoing them. After all, Israel does not listen and sometimes are just as barbaric as the Arabs. They kill men, women, and children, just like the Arabs. ALL OVER SOME VERY STUPID THINGS.

At least if we lost Israel as an ally, they wouldn't come over here and fly planes into our shit.
 
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DaIce72

#9
Sepoku said:
that way of thinking won't work at all. that is exactly what the terrorists' goals were in commiting those acts. if we pull out, they'll see that those tactics are successful, and who's to say that they'll stop? france doesn't support israel or us, and yet they still are targeted by those criminals.
Yeah and we took care of much of that threat when we went to Afghanistan. Bin Laden is not what he once was, and that was great. The war was justified and we had a reason for going in there.

But by going into Iraq for a reason that turned out to be not true, and then continuing to occpy the country and come up with other reasons as to why we are truthfully there, we have put our selves into a worse position. Do you realize that the next Usama is probally being made right now? Our actions in the Middle East certainly have not calmed things down, if anything they have disturbed an ant nest.

This is what I don't get with some people. The only way they see a solution is to smash the problem. But by smashing that problem, it might create many other problems that we cannot even fathom. If we were to pull out AFTER Iraq, and wash our hands clean of the Middle East, they would have no reason to hate us.

As much as I cried, as much as I HATED what happened on 911, I think it opened my eyes as to how we are perceived by the world as a whole. We need to change that.
 

Bergs

Elitist
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#10
DaIce72 said:
As much as I cried, as much as I HATED what happened on 911, I think it opened my eyes as to how we are perceived by the world as a whole. We need to change that.
No, we need to kill them.
 
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#11
wont werk cuz those dam A-Rabs are insane!


ya, i doubt it would work, people hold grudes like bitches these gays, and im being honest. people dont forget, whatever we "did" to them, we hafta do 10 more things to please them
 
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DeeDee

#12
That opened your eyes to how other countries feel about us huh? So you realize how incredibly jealous they are of the freedoms and liberties we have? I assure you in the Middle East that is what the issue is.

As for Bin Laden, he attacked us because we got involved in a conflict that pissed him off. Before that, he LOVED the US.. i mean shit, we trained him. These people that back him and agree with him are nothing less than easily led cattle. They fail to see how he was all about the US until we didn't agree with what he saw fit. These people in the Middle East have been trained from birth to believe that we all hate them and are the enemy.

I will admit however, that in some ways i agree with this. We have a big tendency to stick our big noses into crap we shouldn't. Ever heard of Freedom at midnight? Yeah, we contributed to that. The Bangledeshi people were a peaceful nation that was attacked by weapons that we supplied from a previous conflict that we assisted Pakistan with(to help them fight communism, ie: RUSSIA). We gave the weapons that slaughtered these people. Pakistan went in and slaughtered these people. They raped their women and killed their children. And all because we wanted to further own our own agenda.

Maybe we need to keep a financial interest in the countries, but I think that for the most part we should let them do what they do best.. kill each other.
 
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wataba

#13
Bergs said:
No, we need to kill them.
that too, but it would be wise to look into legitimate grievances they have and begin to change on them or else you'll kill a terrorist and 10 more will rise to take his place, and then we'll be fighting this war forever
 
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#14
DaIce72 said:
We give them what they want...we leave! I am not saying pull out of Iraq, I think we should finish what we have already started, but after this is over, we simply never go there again. No matter what the U.S. does there, we are perceived as bad guys. I say we pull all interests out and leave them alone. What reason would they have to attack us then? We should still give financial aide and maybe impose sanctions or something, but sending young men and women to die and spending billions of dollars that could otherwise go to education or helping out the people that live in this country is just insane. I mean, the people don't even LIKE us. In a recent poll, almost half of the Iraqis stated that they would like to see us leave sooner rather than later. Saudi Arabia doesn't like us very much. The only friend we have in the region is Jordan (at least the main one, maybe Turkey sometimes), but now even they are coming under attack. WE NEED TO GET OUT!

Now I know the main argument against this has been "What about our dependency on foreign oil?" Well, I think that while we mop up in Iraq, special funds should be set aside for the development of alternative power. By the time we finish what we need to do there, we can atleast have some idea of where we are going with the power issue. I don't think people would mind cutting back on some of the things they love as long as American men and women don't have to die just for some gas. I am sick and tired when we do all of this and give so much, just to have the world criticize us and fly planes into our buildings.

Anyways, just some thoughts of mine...
EXACTLY. We are wasting money and for what --> a bad reputation. We should get out of Israel and place ourselves in a neutral position with Palistine and Israel. We should take our soldiers out of Iraq as soon as possible too. We should be spending our money to improve our own country or perhaps to help out Africa and improve trading there, since Africa has such a potential to be one of the more prosperous continents out there.
 

Viceroy

Nute Gunray
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#15
JustinJJ said:
EXACTLY. We are wasting money and for what --> a bad reputation. We should get out of Israel and place ourselves in a neutral position with Palistine and Israel. We should take our soldiers out of Iraq as soon as possible too. We should be spending our money to improve our own country or perhaps to help out Africa and improve trading there, since Africa has such a potential to be one of the more prosperous continents out there.
Africa shares many of the same problems as the Middle East. Brutal regimes, ethnic cleansing etc. Tens of thousands have been killed in the Congo in recent years, just for being Muslem. If you think things would be any different in Africa than they are in the Middle East, you are sorely mistaken.

Africa also has the added bonus of AIDS. Does America want to fight a war against terror and desease?

America's culture is so alien to most countries, that the only way it really can help is by killing off their regimes. This encourages resentment throughout the region, not to mention the world. In the end, America just has to rely on brute force.
 
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#16
Viceroy said:
Africa shares many of the same problems as the Middle East. Brutal regimes, ethnic cleansing etc. Tens of thousands have been killed in the Congo in recent years, just for being Muslem. If you think things would be any different in Africa than they are in the Middle East, you are sorely mistaken.

Africa also has the added bonus of AIDS. Does America want to fight a war against terror and desease?

America's culture is so alien to most countries, that the only way it really can help is by killing off their regimes. This encourages resentment throughout the region, not to mention the world. In the end, America just has to rely on brute force.
I was thinking more on the lines of improving trade and giving aid... and anyway, the reason the muslims hate us so much is because we sided up with Israel and went against Palestine. In Africa, we would begin on a more neutral ground. We could use less military force and more negotiations and improve financial aid to Africa. Africa has so many raw materials that it could be well worthwhile...
 

BlueMind

Moderating Hearts & Minds
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#17
Yes, that must be it.

They hate our freedoms and liberty and they have camels and they kill because their religon says to and they wear turbans because they hate us and because they are jealous.

Yes.

EDIT: And they hate our culture, forgot to add that. They blow shit up becuase they hate our culture.
 
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Viceroy

Nute Gunray
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#18
JustinJJ said:
I was thinking more on the lines of improving trade and giving aid... and anyway, the reason the muslims hate us so much is because we sided up with Israel and went against Palestine. In Africa, we would begin on a more neutral ground. We could use less military force and more negotiations and improve financial aid to Africa. Africa has so many raw materials that it could be well worthwhile...
Africa has so many dirt bag regimes, any aid you give them is usually channelled into the governments, not the oppressed populations.